GB Meeting after AGM held on 27 Nov 2010 - Followed by Some Interesting Mails

Dear Colleagues,

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The Governing Body met today from 1030 to 1330 hours. This was the first meeting after the 27 Nov AGM and was attended by Chander Kamboj, Krit Joshipura, Kameshwar Pandey, Rakesh Chaturvedi, CK Sharma, Satbir Singh, Vinod Gandhi and self. Discussion focused inter alia on the following points:

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( a ) Formation of various committees to progress our agenda of ESM welfare.

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( b ) Finding conveners for all States and thereafter intra-State conveners at District level.

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( c ) Issues to be included in our projection of a case to the proposed AFGRC.

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It was accepted that the current spate of rallies have been having the desired result on the government. There have been various indicators to this affect. It was decided that in order to keep the pressure on the government, this mode of struggle to seek justice should continue. The next rally has been planned to be held at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi, on Sunday, 13 February 2011, when the Parliament would be having their budget session. Maximum attendance is requested.

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Best regards,

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Lt Gen (Emeritus) Raj Kadyan, PVSM, AVSM, VSM

Chairman IESM

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Respected Gen Kadyan,

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Thanks for the Sirep 12 Dec. To me it appears a misconception, that the current rallys are having the desired effect on the Government. Hardly any indicators are visible or can be seen so far. Even the Defence Ministers replies to the letters addressed to him, by our supporters and his statements in the Parliament, are totally at a tangent to our cause and no where do theyindicate that they would concede to our justified demand of OROP. The snails pace, which we are following so far, for every action, may cause inordinate delays in achieving our mission. I feel as an organisation of the stature of IESM, we may have to bring in certain tangible changes in our out look to impress thegoverment, to make them look towards our cause, lest we just keep hoping and waiting till eternity.

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Incidentally, I am still keenly awaiting the detailed Minutes of the AGM held on 27 Nov 2010. Why so much of delay in sending them? We are expecting you to let, every one know, absolutely a true picture of all the events and discussions that took place during the AGM. You are aware that some unexpected resignations took place after the AGM. Not only I,but many areparticularly concerned. I am sure all members of IESM are anxious to know the events leading to such a development. I am sure, none of the members, want the IESM to get weakened, for unwarranted actions and petty reasons.

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All Veterans are also keenly awaiting to know the latest on the uncertainty which has been created, and still prevailing in the Rank Pay Case, especially after the two judge decision to refer the case to the Chief Justice. I had earlier also raised a querry on this, but nothing specific could be known. RDOA may be approached to get specific information in this case for information of one and all.

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I certainly hope, that I would soon get a proper response, from you or your staff.

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With regards

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Col LK Anand Retd

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Dear Veteran Anand
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Not all indicators (on govt concern about IESM activities) are in public domain. But rest assured the govt is concerned.
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Your comments about the slow pace are understandable. I wish you had also given some concrete advice on how to speed up the outcome.
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The General Secretary has had an unfortunate bereavement in his family. Minutes would be out soon. Suffice it to say that the AGM was normal and there was nothing in it per se to cause any member to resign. Nor has the Governing Body received any resignation till date.
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Best regards,
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Lt Gen (Emeritus) Raj Kadyan, PVSM, AVSM, VSM, SM
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Dear Respected Veteran ,
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Though very few emails from you on to the walls of this Group, may be because of having joined recently, but all have been highly logical, forthright and asking for something which automatically should have been there.

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Kindly include me in this class, which may not have sufficient numbers , to know the exact picture. I, too, agree with you that ultimately we would have lost the time and money due to us, because of wrong thinking..

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With warm Regards.

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VPS
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You are grossly illinformed and you are misleading other Veterans.

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In past few months very large number of decisions have been given by AFT and other courts, including the Supreme Court.

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Government has not implemented any and may not implement any.

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You have to compel the Government to act by other means.

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Regards.

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Chander Kamboj

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Dear All,
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The points in issue, very deftly avoided, are OROP, Rank Pay and Minutes of the AGM held on 27 Nov 2010 , as rightly highlighted by veteran Col. L K Anand. It would be appropriate to address these for the info. of all, who are being mislead by me due to my being grossly misinformed
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As regards, 'In past few months very large number of decisions have been given by AFT and other courts, including the Supreme Court.' .... what has it to do with the IESM Movement. Many more decisions would keep coming on every individual representation.

Lastly, may I request you to kindly refrain from being personal, on any point raised by any member.
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With Warm Regards.
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Wg. Cdr. V P Sachar
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Dear Ved,
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reference your email.
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On reading my last email again, I do appreciate that my last email does appear to be being personal, for which I am sorry.
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That was not the intention.
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As regards the minutes of the meeting, these are being finalised and will be put on the net very soon. The very next day of the AGM being held - the Secy Gen of IESM, Gp Capt Vinod Gandhi, lost his mother. He was away for a few days and on his return, had problems recollecting all the happenings and notes. We all are helping him to put the details together. I hope you appreciate our problem.
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Regarding the other issues raised by you, we are disseminating maximum possible information to you all at the fastest speed possible.
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What information is not available - obiviously we cannot answer questions on that.
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I get very large number of similar emails, where ESM sitting in the comfort of their drawing rooms keep critising the work being done by IESM and other ESM organisations, but their own contribution for the success of these movements, in terms of time, effort and financial support is almost zero. It is sickening to keep getting these comments and suggestions, 99% of which are simply cut-paste from some other ESM's emails or posting on the web; original thinking is almost NIL
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Dear Ved, you have no idea how sickening it is to get dozen of such emails every day
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After all we are also human beings - how long and how many such emails we can keep tolerating and lumping. Most of us working for the IESM movement, spend our own money for personal moves related to IESM and internet expenses, sacrifice our family life, sacrifice our social life and sacrifice our health and rest time - yet these gentlemen sitting in the comfort of their drawing rooms, with no contribution to the movement in terms of their time, effort or financial support, want to teach us what to do and how to do.

Not only that - they go and post their rude emails against us to anyone and everyone, on all possible websites.

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Can you kindly appreciate - how hurt we feel with such emails and yet we continue with our struggle for the benefit of all ESM in India and abroad.

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The major strength for these rallies in Delhi comes from among the JCOs, NCOs, OR and widows from nearby states.

The ESM officers are there only to give us advice and ask questions which are related to their personal problems like pension, rank pay and ECHS etc.

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Regards
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Chander Kamboj

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Dear Col. Anand,
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Just forwarding to you only, the trailing emails, yours, mine follow up, Dear Veteran Kamboj's making it personal ( This is not the first time, I have had aplenty from him, one odd well worded from Lt. Gen Kadyan and the naximum from Wg Cdr. C K Sharma from Jun 2008 onwards), my reaction and the last addressed to me only. FYKI, Pl
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With warm Regards
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VPS

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Well taken, Sir.
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May God Bless all and give you fortitude to take all veterans' fraternity along with you and others at the helm, towards achieving our objective.
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With warm Regards.
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VPS

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My Dear Wg Cdr VPS,
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It is unfortunately a pity that some people do not like the nail being hit directly on their heads. Anyway, that is not the issue here. I like many others in our ranks, had doubts and I conveyed them to the Chairmaan in my way. It is upto the office bearers of IESM to evolve ways and means to keep the organisation pepped up, the way majority of us expect. There should be, and must be a number of bright spots amongst their (IESM) ranks, who can devise better ways to achieve our mission. They may have time but we are losing our patience now.
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Before, the AGM in a specific letter, with an effort towards calming down the turbulence caused by Col Rajan's letter, I had requested the Chairman, beside some other points, to list activities to be handled by the IESM, make action plans, allot them to the committees and lay down targets for each of them. Which, I presume they would have done, unless the AGM decided to ignore my suggestions. Let us hope that with the commencement of a new term of the the Governing Body, the things would improve. Dear VPS. Please be assured that you would remain on my mailing list as you wish.
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Dear Brig Kamboj only. It seems you have unduly over reacted on the remarks of VPS. You certainly could not afford to be personal with him, which hurt me too. I can assure you that, no one amongst the veterans is so misinformed and no one is trying to mislead any Veterans. How can Veterans ever be misled? Why would they be Veterans after all. We have only expressed or conveyed the sentiments of many like minded veterans, who not only have various doubts in their minds but also have high hopes on the capabilities of the IESM. No one one wants such hopes to be belied. We all want that the actions of IESM, should infuse sufficient confidence in its members, and not that their suggestions or querries be summarily rebutted or disposed off. IESM should be sporting enough to take suggestions and criticism in their stride and evolve best solutions. I only hope that you would give a rethought to your remarks to VPS, and take action as deemed fit by you.

With Kind regards

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Col LK Anand Retd

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Dear Brig Kamboj,

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I have already sent a reply to you on "grossly illinformed" and "misleading other Veterans" aspects. However, as far as AFT and Supreme Court decisions favouring the ESMs/Veterans are concerned, I am sure we must be having a legal cell working within the folds of IESM. If not, I suggest, we have it start functioning soon. Would it then not be appropriate, for them to approach higher courts for forcing implementation, or for initiating contempt proceedings against the inaction of government functionaries in stalling the court orders. Non implementation of court decisions literally amounts to failure of democracy in India.

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I suggest the aspect be discussed threadbare, with our legal experts to find solution to this problem. Failing this, the authority of the AFT or even the High Courts and Supreme Court would become questionable.

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With regards.

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Col LK Anand Retd

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Dear Col Anand,
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Reference your emails below.

First of all, we all do appreciate the ground work, the media work and financial support you are putting in to back up the efforts of IESM
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We do expect you to kindly continue with that good work
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As regards my email to Wg Cdr Ved Sachar, it is a personal matter between me and him and has been amicably sorted out between us. You may verify with him if you wish to. This email is also being endorsed to him.

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Regarding your emails to Chairman IESM, me and to the various weblogs, you have every right to be inquisitive about the progress being made by IESM in matters concerning all ESM, in particular the main topics being pursued by IESM
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However, you should have appreciated the repercussions of endorsing such emails on the various weblogs. Based on your email I have received hundreds of emails forwarded to me “I agree with Col LK Anand” – the gentlemen have nothing new to add but it has increased the volume of emails from an average of 150 to 170 emails a day to over 250 emails a day in last two days
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Dear Sir, I am also a human being – how much of these meaningless forwarded emails you expect me to handle and answer; I am constrained to state that you are the cause for sudden large number of emails to me. What have you gained by posting your email on weblogs?
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Why could you not just send your email to Gen Kadyan or to me or to both of us or to some other members of IESM Governing Body? We would have answered your queries to your satisfaction and also circulated your email with our replies on the net (which we always do), so that we would not have received those hundreds of meaninglesss repeat emails from other ESM. I do not think you would able to appreciate my plight because of your email being posted on the various weblogs.

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Was the aim of posting your email on the various weblog – to prove inefficiency of IESM or to prove that you are more concerned about the IESM aims and objectives than the members of the Governing Body? I most humbly request you to answer this question – I hope you will be kind enough to answer this question!!!

Coming to some other points of your email – “that Gen Kadyan should pep-up the working of IESM .... “, you are insulting the members of The Governing Body that the Governing Body members are lazy fellows and do not know what to do and how to do
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Dear Sir, I wish you would know that each and every member of the Governing Body is doing his utmost to achieve the aims and objectives of IESM and achieving them as early as feasible.

Knowing fully well that other members are doing their utmost, we still keep coaxing each other on various issues a member is responsible for. We have been working with total disregard to our health, our family time, our leisure time and have been spending money from our pocket for all the travels and internet expenses. And you want Gen Kadyan to pep up the Governing Body!!!

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Gen Satbir has gone almost blind with one eye; his second eye is now also seriously affected. His wife still supports him in IESM jobs, including cooking huge number of lunches for rallies at Jantar Mantar!!! She helped us in bringing down the cost of one lunch form Rs 25 to Rs 10. Of course this cannot go on indefinitely and we are looking for better ways to handle it. We do not expect veterans coming from far off places in early morning and staying till 3.00 PM at Jantar Mantar to go without any food
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Renjen was suspected of cancer and has been very ill. Fortunately he is OK now; working tirelessly for IESM. The long list of the jobs he is doing cannot be listed here
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Kirit Joshipura was hospitalised for almost a month because he over exhausted himself working for the IESM
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Chaturvedi has also been very ill but continued working without a break
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Kadyan in spite of very heavy load of CWG organisations – spent long hours for IESM
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Sharan in spite of his ailing mother and heavy work load of his office and Naval Foundation has been going door to door to make new members and collecting donations. He also maintains the IESM weblog
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Gen Jaini in spite of staying in Ghaziabad, attends all the meetings in Delhi and leaves no stone unturned to make new members and collect funds. His contribution in organising various rallies is commendable
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CK Sharma is spending long hours every day in sorting out the list of members, which have been messed up by the state conveners by careless entries. He is also working on the list of associate members, belonging to other ESM organisations. He spends long hours in managing the funds and print jobs of the IESM. He is now also managing the sending of emails to all IESM members whose email IDs are available. This is being done to reduce the workload of "REPORT MY SIGNAL" , which has reached a unmanageable level.
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Gp Capt Gandhi, The Secy Gen of IESM, a most thankless job, – with his mother on death bed was organising the AGM and next day managing many issues at the Jantar Mantar Rally, when his mother breathed her last in Chandigarh. We virtually pushed him out from the rally. That is also the reasons that the AGM minutes have been delayed. After he came back from Chandigarh, it took him time to put his notes together. We all helped him to recollect the events and make up for the lost data.

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And Dear Sir, you feel upset for the AGM minutes being delayed and tell the whole world about it, and made others also pounce on us.
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Have you been fair to us???
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You have been most unfair to members of Governing Body.
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The work being done by Sub Maj and Hony Lt Kameshwar Pandey is also commendable. While the officer lot can easily spend money from their pocket for IESM – he in spite of much lower pension than most of us, feels shy to tell us the money he spends on travelling around on IESM jobs. And when he writes about IESM issues on the net – it is worth reading. He taught himself computers to be more affective worker of IESM – commendable.
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There are many of us who are busy in fighting the court cases filed against IESM by some frustrated ESMs – I wonder if you know of it.
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There are many other ESM in NCR and various states who are silently working and whose names have not been mentioned.
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Let me also tell you what I have been doing. I am spending 6 to 8 hours a day on internet for the sake of IESM – at times I spend 12 to 14 hours on internet. I have changed my specs four times in last two years. Last year I had severe injury to my wrist and right arm due to unduly long hours of working on computer; so much so that I was advised hospitalisation, which I refused and continued working for IESM. I used to sleep in reclined position because lying down caused severe pain in the right arm.
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I am spending more than Rs 1000 per month from my pocket on internet to keep you all informed.
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My wife and my children are very upset with me that I do not give them sufficient time. (That is the case with most of the members of the Governing Body.)

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You should also know that RDOA is an independent organisation and not working under IESM.
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Why should you ask IESM to find out the progress of Rank Pay from RDOA and then inform you?
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Why can’t you do it yourself??? Therefore, my remark that you are ill informed is further justified.
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Regarding your point about “To me it appears a misconception, that the current rallies are having the desired effect on the Government” ; you are certainly ill informed; and since you sent this message on the web – you are misleading other ESM.
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I hope you understand the reasons now why I said so in my last email.
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We, in NCR, know exactly what effects these rallies are having. We would not like to disclose our sources of information, the reliability of which is beyond doubt. It is because of these rallies that whole of India, the media, the public and the courts know about the injustice being done by the Govt to the Defence Services personnel – serving and retired. It is quite possible that you also came to know about IESM because of IESM rallies.
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The very fact that the Government is obliquely referring to IESM in the Parliament, is a proof of their discomfort about the achievement of IESM.
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 Coming to your point about Rank Pay. You should have known that Rank Pay is not being dealt by IESM but by RDOA. From among the veteran officers in NCR, who receive these emails, hardly one or two percent attend any rally (if the perecentage of all ESM officers of NCR was to be taken 0.001 percent attend any rally); and then they give us advice what should be done and how it should be done.Before I end, let me thank you for the very first sentence in your email below, addressed to Wg Cdr Sachar, “some people do not like the nail being hit directly on their heads.”

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It is very easy to judge rudeness of others but not so easy to be polite to others Not your fault – very often that sort of reward has been given to me by many.

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I have lot of patience to tolerate these unkind remarks.
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I hope you will be less impolite next time.
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With regards as ever before and hoping that you shall continue to do the good work as always.
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Chander Kamboj

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Dear Brig Kamboj,

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Thank you very much for your frank and forthright comments on my mails, which I really appreciate.

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Thanks a lot, also for giving me detailed activity list of all members of the Governing Body. I have never thought them to be not doing their respective jobs. In fact I have always been appreciative of all the work being done by the IESM and that is the reason why I have always supported the IESM in every possible manner, and never hesitated in conveying my views, at times, directly to the Chairman. Incidentally, I some how could not fathom the effect of my posting the mails on the weblog, and did not realise that volume of mails to you would increase so many folds. I hereby tender my sincere apologies, for causing so much, undesirable harassment to you. I would certainly avoid posting such critical mails on the weblog, in future.

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You can be rest assured that I would continue to support the cause of IESM in whatever way I can, in future as well. The intention has never been to hurt any body's sentiments or being impolite to any one especially to you. If my forthright view or language has caused, any ill feelings amongst any one in the IESM, I again extend my sincere apologies. Incidentally, I have now received the minutes of the AGM. I would study them, and if you permit, I would give you my views and suggestions. I would certainly expect, suggestions of all members, to be put to some sort of a debate, for getting the best out of them. I fully appreciate the pressure of work on all members working in the NCR. My suggestions if any, would only be to make the organisation more unified, strong and vibrant.

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You are very well aware of the appreciation and respect I have specifically for you and the dedicated work you are doing for the IESM. You can be rest assured that, I would never try and undermine your position in any way. You may not know, that Col Rajan and I have been old colleagues, but I did not hesitate in giving my forthright view, in support of Gen Raj Kadyan against him, and then requesting Rajan to apologise to the General. That is the level of fairness and justice I stand by.

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I am a bit upset with Maj Gen Satbir, because I had addressed a mail to him twice seeking some specific information, but unfortunately got no response from him at all. Even if he could not provide the information, I would have very much appreciated a response from him.

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Sir, I have well taken the points conveyed by you. I would try my level best to ensure, that in future my remarks and views, do not hurt any body's sentiments. I am a true soldier, and would always remain so, till the end.

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With fondest of regards.

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Col LK Anand Retd

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Acknowledged.
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Let us leave the past behind and carry on as ever before.
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Regarding your views about Gen Satbir not responding – please appreciate that because of his bad eyes, he is dependent on someone else to lookafter his emails.
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The person who attends to his emails is not very proficient in use of computer. Even we as members of the Governing Body are not able to get proper response to our emails sent to Gen Satbir and have to resort to phone calls to him.
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In future unless you feel only Gen Satbir has to answer your email please send your email to IESM HQ on ID iesm2008@gmail.com . Your email will be redirected to the concerned member depending on the subject or sent to the entire Governing Body
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Regarding your views about AGM minutes – that is normal practice being followed by IESM for all minutes of various meetings.

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Regards.
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Chander Kamboj